N=Nichol Kessinger
K=Kevin Koback
T=Tammy Lee
S=Stacy Galbraith
K: Right here is good.
N: Okay.
K: I’ll be right back, all right? I’m just gonna get Tammy so she can come in…Introduce yourself, all right?
N: Okay.
K: I’ll be right back.
K: You all right?
N: Yeah.
K: These rooms are recorded. So anything you say in here is subject to recording. Just so you know.
N: Okay.
K: And you said on your text that you might’ve remembered some more stuff. So let’s do…
N: Yeah.
K: …the phones first.
N: Um, I need to…they gave me a piece of paper to transfer my contacts. Wouldn’t do it for me but…
K: You should be able to just put ’em on the iCloud.
N: I don’t know….[laughter]…how to do this. They said to follow this app. I can’t even find the App Store on this phone.
K: Is it uh Android?
N: Yeah. So strange…I um…I tried to transfer all the stuff from this phone to this phone last night and so it’s synching up like old texts. Like stuff I don’t even have saved in here.
K: Were any of them from Chris?
N: Yeah a few but not many. It’s pretty short. There’s like 10 or 12 and there’s like a few from those days but most of it like…
T: Hi! Hello, Nikki. I’m Tammy.
K: Come in Stacy.
S: Hello Nikki.
K: Nikki, this is Tammy.
N: Hi Tammy, nice to meet you.
S: I’m Stacy Galbraith.
N: Nice to meet you.
T: How are you doing?
N: I’m all right.
T: Getting through it?
N: Trying.
T: Yeah?
K: Stressing out.
S: Stressing out? Yeah, you looked stressed out.
T: Did you get some therapy figured out?
N: I’m waiting for you guys to get back to me on that. But I’m tryin’…
S: It’ll help.
T: Does Hazel need to…?
K: Yeah, we’re gonna see if Hazel comes in so…Weld County’s just…I had to write a letter yesterday for Weld County to approve to pay for her treatment.
S: Oh.
K: And that’s gotta go through a board. Because it’s kind of unusual, since she’s not an “eye-witness”…
T: Right.
K: But uh it sounded like there’s not gonna be any opposition to it. It’s just a process.
T: Oh. Okay.
K: So when you go through the text messages Tammy and probably Stacy will be there, so you guys know each other. Or if they reach out to you, you know that they’re not the media.
N: Can you guys give me your cards so I just…everyone?
S & T: Yeah. Sure. Okay.
K: Thank you.
N: And now with this new phone I’ve got so many numbers that I’m sure I can figure out who they are…
K: So…
N: I need to just deal with that if you can just help me get all of my contacts from this phone to that phone.
K: I can get a tech guy to help me ’cause I’m bad at it too.
N: They gave me instructions on it.
K: So this is your old phone?
N: This is the one that I use for communication. This is the one that’s going to you guys. This one’s mine now.
K: This one’s nicer.
N: I know. I iPhones suck. I don’t need to have this back.
K: Okay. So you’re gonna…you wanna move the contacts from there to there.
N: That’s all I wanna do. Once you guys do that then you guys can have this phone. I mean he gave me a way to do it so I think I need to connect to WiFi, and then I need to download this app and then I think once I download it I can sync it up. And I need to just download the app on both phones.
K: Let me get a guy who knows about WiFi.
N: Okay.
K: Is your password still [redacted]?
N: Yeah, that never changed.
K: So that’s gonna be that one? And which one is getting all the new text messages, your new phone?
N: Hm mn. It only got a few and like now I get what you’re saying they’re like out of order, they’re scrambled, they’re missing. They don’t make sense. I got super excited when I saw them because I was like, “Maybe it’ll be all of ‘em” but it’s not.
K: So…maybe what I’ll ask. We have a device that can download that too.
N: This one, too? I mean I don’t know if that’ll work but we can try it.
T: Here’s mine. Here’s hers.
N: Thank you.
S: And then Kevin knows how to get ahold of us after hours if we need to do that, too.
N: I appreciate that.
K: I’m gonna go get Matt. I’ll be right back. I need him to download…
T: Are you getting her a spare phone is that what-?
K: She has her own spare phone but when she linked her accounts, a bunch of messages between her and Chris were recovered on her new phone.
T: Oh, okay.
K: So I’m gonna just Cellebrite on her new phone so we don’t have to take all her phones.
S & T: Yeah. No doubt.
S: Are you good in here?
N: Sure.
T: You want some water or anything?
N: Please.
T: Okay.
N: Okay, so, App Store.
T: Here’s water.
N: Thank you. I appreciate it.
T: Need anything else?
N: I think I’m good.
T: Okay. They’ll be in here in just a few minutes, okay?
N: Thank you.
N: (mumbling) Wonder what that’s connected to?
N: (cursing?)
N: Just so much fucking bullshit.
N: WTF?
K: All right. Tech guy — tech guy’s coming to help us.
N: I would do it myself but it’s like there so many different things on here
K: Okay
N: Like right now
K: So it’s not very new?
N: This is old. K: Okay.
N: I haven’t used this phone since like 2016.
N: And so all these numbers on here are numbers of people I’ve gotten since —
What I don’t want with like the media and all this other stuff going on is to have a phone just full of unknown contacts.
K: Sure. I get it. So he’s gonna come over and turn your WiFi on and figure out how to move…
N: All of that.
K: He — he knows…
N: I’ll let him do that. I give up.
K: Okay. So your phone this time-do you have any objections to us looking at everything in your phone?
N: Why do you guys need that? I’m just curious. Like why do you need everything as opposed to just stuff between me and him?
K: So, well, because it’s easier to get if we’re looking at all the material. Let’s say I take everything off your phone, I can put a date in. Like, let’s say, August 10th through the 15th because those are critical days…
N: Uh hun…
K: …but other conversations between you and Chris or other text messages between you and Chris, from June or July…do makes it harder for me to find all those. Do you understand what I mean?
K: If-it’s easier for them to just take everything-
N: Even though it’s the same phone number?
K: I don’t know. Are they?
N: Yeah. Except for when I first met him and it was his APC thing.
K: Okay, and then what about your phone log? It’s always his 910 number?
N: It’s the same number all the time. Like that one or originally was his other one —
K: We talked about your GPS location — knowing where your phone is at certain times.
N: Yeah, I mean you guys can have all that I was just like, “Oh my gosh it’s so many texts on here between me and all my friends. I’m like, “Do they really want all this stuff?”
K: Well, is there anything in those texts that you’d be concerned with?
N: Not really.
K: So…Well…Not really or yes or no?
N: No, I mean like…
N: Well the other day my dad and I decided to do some damage control because a lot of people were like, “Hey the media’s calling me. I don’t know what to say.”
N: And I just told ’em all like, I didn’t say anything, I pretty much just said, “If the media tries to contact you, tell them no comment.”
N: I was like, “Please be nice to them. You do not need to talk to them.
N: I was like, “I’m safe. I’m not in trouble.
I didn’t break any laws.”
N: And I was just like, “Just send your love and support.”
And that was all I said to people.
K: So did that prompt all the phone calls of people going, “Are you okay?”
N: No. They were prompting me.
K: All right.
N: That is why I did that because I didn’t want to like say that but I was getting all sorts of texts from people that were like, “The media shouldn’t contact me. I don’t know what to do.”
N: I didn’t tell ’em I was a witness.
I didn’t tell them anything about that. It was just like, “Just say no comment.”
I need you to do this.
K: Okay.
N: And then like a couple of my super-super close friends I asked ’em if they’d be courteous enough to take all the pictures that we had of each other off Facebook and social media and they said yes.
N: And that was like a couple of really close friends.
K: Is there any text messages between you and friends that reference anything that would be concerning regarding this case?
N: No.
K: Like talking about Chris? I think you’ve told me that you’ve like never really talked with…
N: My friends about him? No and like my friend’s dad died like last night like yesterday.
K: I’m not worried about that.
N: No I know but like she started like-OMG she was really drunk last night. She started like freaking out. She’s like, “I don’t know what’s going on in your life.”
N: She’s like, “I don’t know if it pertains to this case.”
She like just sent me like a screenshot of a news article of that case. And she was just like-
K: What about conversations-
N: I-I didn’t mention that it had anything to do with that.
N: She’s like, “I don’t know if that’s what it is.”
N: “He works at Anadarko.” She’s like, “I really don’t give a shit.”
N: She’s like, “I just really just need you to be here with me and my dad.” And this and this and this.
N: She was just kind of upset because I had asked her…Um…
N: To please say no comment to the media. And it happened to be like right when her dad died.
N: And I think she was feeling a little like…yeah.
N: But I mean you guys can read this. There’s nothing in there of me actually saying anything about it-
N: I just told her-
K: What’s your phone number on that phone?
N: 720-It’s the same number that’s on this one.
[Redacted]
N: So no. I mean you guys can-you guys can look at it.
K: So between-there was a conversation that I asked you about…between you and Charlotte.
N: That’s the same girl.
K: That’s the same girl who was freaking out?
N: Yeah.
K: So was there ever a conversation about kids with you and Charlotte? Like you..I can’t remember the exact context.
N: I told her that I’d been hanging out with a guy who had kids.
K: Okay and what…
N: She has not even like put any of this…
K: All right. So your conversations about him having kids: How did that go?
N: I mean I don’t know I just told her like she…uh…
K: Did you delete that or is it still on there?
N: Yeah. No no no no no no no. I have no reason to delete anything else on my phone.
N: The reason I deleted all this stuff with Chris was because he was making me feel really uncomfortable.
N: And I didn’t want to see it in my phone anymore.
K: Okay.
N: Um…yeah let me scroll all the way back here. Me and this girl talk a lot.
N: No. She is like…
K: So let’s just, while we’re here, because…We talked about this before but we didn’t talk about the specific context of what that message said regarding the children. So obviously, this situation that we’re looking at now, with the death of two children and all the other circumstantial stuff going around in the case…
K: It. You. I just wanna make sure there was no comments ever made by you regarding-you know-children or dislike of children…Or love of children. Either way. Do you know what I mean?
N: Oh yeah I guess. Let me find that…Uh…..
N: I think this is where this starts. I mean you guys can just take whatever you want off of there.
K: So it is easier for me to just take everything than it is to single it out.
N: I know.
K: Plus, for the purposes of this case, the less exposure — you know — we already have initially you drew concern from me when you told me you deleted everything from Chris.
K: I’ve already told you that. You understand why. There’s no question as to why that might cause concern.
K: So if there’s anything else that ever comes up, I have it. And then we can just discuss it.
K: Do you understand what I mean?
N: Hm mn. K: All right.
N: It’s right here. This is where it starts. She starts…right there.
N: She starts talking about her and her fiancé. So that was like weeks ago.
N: And she hasn’t brought it up since really or like connected the dots or like said shit. I mean and you guys can look through all those texts.
N: And I don’t know when that was. That was definitely when things were going good so this is like weeks prior I’m assuming.
N: I think the date is at the top of whenever we started texting that day.
K: Okay. It looks…this is… N: We talk a lot.
K: [Tuesday] August 7th [2018] N: Yeah. K: So.
K: I reference everything to Sunday…the 12th [of August, the day of the murders.]
N: So that’s the only conversation like that on there I believe on my phone. I don’t think there’s like anything else. And she even last night like still wasn’t even…She’s still so worried about her dad.
N: Other than that there shouldn’t really be anything on there with other people.
N: But you guys can just scroll everything off that phone if you want.
K: As long as you’re okay with that, that’s would be
N: I mean if that makes your life easier…
K: It’s not just about making it easier, just less, so if…there’s any question. Some — like I told you before…Like the two girls you just met did a lot of interviews in this case.
K: They’ve done a lot of work. They may know things that I don’t.
N: Hm mn.
K: There’s no way that we can all know everything. So they might go “Oh,” because somebody else is the one who told me about Charlotte and this message.
N: Well that’s probably why.
K: I’ve never read this.
K: Potentially I’m — yeah —
N: I’m assuming that’s what that is because I said his name.
N: And I don’t even think she’s put 2 and 2 together because last night it was just like the way she was talking.
N: She wasn’t like: This is him! This is it! She was like, “I don’t know what’s going on.”
N: “I just assumed this is it because this guy worked at Anadarko.” But she is not even like processing….what is occurring.
K: What do you mean by, “Can tell he has a lot to take care of in life”?
K: What did you mean when you said that?
N: His mortgage and he has kids…and responsibility.
N: I mean he’s a father with a house.
K: You’re even saying in here, “He’s all about his kids.”
N: Yeah, and she was like asking me somewhere in there like…I mean everything I had to say about him at that point was like really positive.
N: Like I think I made it clear that I wasn’t like 100% sure that this was like the man of my dreams and I was gonna spend the rest of my life with him or anything. But I was enjoying the time that I was spending with him at that point.
K: You’re referencing that he has two kids. And then you don’t like that? Um, because you want to have that experience with somebody else? Is that…?
N: I just know that I wasn’t sure if he was the one that I wanted to be with because he had already like done everything.
K: Ok.
N: Like I was like it would be really nice to kind of like have kids and have my own marriage and all that stuff but that was never anything I conveyed to him.
K: So she said — you said, “He’s handsome huh?”
Did you send her a picture?
N: Hm mn.
K: And that’s not attached here. Is that because what you — from what you deleted?
N: I think it’s from when I deleted all of my photos of his stuff.
K: “He’s kinda short”? [laughter]
N: I mean I talked to her knowing that I wouldn’t like talk to him as like my girl, you know what I’m saying?
K: I get it. I’m just teasing you a little bit. [laughter]
K: Seems like you’re just talking about shoes and…
N: Other stuff.
K: Okay, so —
N: But then she brought it up again last night.
K: Brought up what?
N: That case but she didn’t like connect the dots. She was like freaking out with her dad just dying.
N: She was really upset. She wanted me to come see her on Saturday because it’s his wake —
K: Unexpected?
N: Kinda sorta yeah. He had Parkinson’s? Kinda but not. You know what I’m saying?
K: Hm mn.
N: It’s a very drawn out thing. But she’s having a really hard time with it.
N: I knew she would and she’s just like, she was like “Can you make the wake on Saturday?” And I’m just like, “I’m really hesitant to leave the house.” And I didn’t tell her that but I was like, “I don’t know. I’ll try.”
N: I’m gonna go but I’m not gonna tell her until it’s like right before I have to be there.
N: And she started bringing up —
K: So where did she reference, “Is Chris the guy?”
K: I’m more interested in —
N: No she didn’t even ask me and she was just like…she’s like…
N: “I don’t know what’s going on.” She’s like…you can see it. [laughter] Uh, hold on…
K: Okay, so you mentioned on your text before you’d come in that there was other information on your texts that you thought of that was important again.
K: Wanna tell? N: Yeah, let me. Get so sidetracked.
[Laughter] K: I’ll look at this while you do that and then…
N: I’ll show you where it is.
K: Yeah show me where it is.
N: There’s so much in here. Like I’ll just say…
K: You guys talk a lot.
N: Oh yeah, she is like my — right here — so first she sends me this. And she doesn’t ask me about him. She’s saying he looks like her ex. That’s when she first brings him up.
N: She doesn’t even mention me at that point. I don’t even think she realizes it’s the same guy.
N: Like legitimately. I think this girl is so wrapped up in all the stuff that she’s got going on right now that I don’t even think it’s even processing.
N: I mean you can just tell by the way that she like talks. See and she’s all upset ’cause I asked her to —
K: Hm mn.
N: — not talk to the media and it happened to be the day that her dad died and I’m sitting her trying to comfort her.
K: Is this your best friend?
N: Yes. This girl is like my whole world.
K: All right.
K: But you’re not talking about children or your relationship with Chris or anything like that.
N: No. The only time I ever mentioned him was like that one day.
K: Okay.
N: And I didn’t even remember that I had like said that to her because I know there’s just so much…
K: What’s her phone number? [redacted]
K: So I’m not gonna call her but at some point we might wanna talk to her. Just so you know, I mean…Sooner or later she’s gonna connect the dots or you’re gonna tell her right? If she’s your best friend.
N: I’m not gonna tell her. If she figures it out, she figures it out.
K: Okay.
K: Um, if we were gonna talk to her I’d let you know beforehand. Is that fair?
N: Yes. So I can give her a head’s up. And then she apologized to me because she was being kind of crazy.
N: She was.
K: So tell me about the info that you remember.
N: Okay, uh. See right here — hold on. Uh…She says, “Look man I know you work at Anadarko. He did, too. I know he murdered his wife and kids. I know he was a doll? Dog? I know you’re my best friend. I know you have a good heart. I know that that guy needs to go to jail and he will. I know you don’t want publicity. I know that as a witness if you say anything it can cause a mistrial.
N: I know you don’t want that and neither do I. Fuck the media. I want my best friend here.
N: I never fucking said anything to her about a trial.
K: Okay, but —
N: See look she goes, “I don’t even care if you flirted with him or more. I know you had nothing to do with what happened. I don’t care if your job is having an open investigation. I’m not gonna ask you a single question. But my pop’s died and you’re my best friend.”
K: Okay.
N: And I said, “Please stop talking about that.” And she said, “What? Are you on house arrest?” And she kept saying, “My father died. WTF?” She was not okay last night and I was just trying to like —
K: Understandable.
N: Mitigate this. Um…and I was like trying to calm her down.
N: And I said, “Charlotte, I’m trying so hard to be the best friend I can be to you right now.”
N: I said, “I don’t want to talk to you about that case” — I didn’t say the case, I said that case.
N: Like I wasn’t even affiliated with it at all. “And you need to respect that. I’m here for you regarding your dad…You know that.” And then she…
K: But — let’s go —
N: “Freaking out. I’m freaking out.”
K: You guys never had a conversation except for this past text messages about Chris and his children?
N: No that. That was it.
K: That’s fine.
N: I mean ’cause he wasn’t really like something that I like super wanted everybody to know about and I shouldn’t have even mentioned it when she brought up like what she had going on sexually with her fiancé and it…it happened but at that point.
K: You guys are best friends. It’s understandable.
N: Yeah, see, and she keeps trying to talk about it. She said, “If you’re not under investigation by the police I don’t care. Why can’t you attend your so-called best friend’s father’s death? It doesn’t make sense to me.”
N: And then all I told her was, “Stop.”
K: Trigger that or her dad…?
N: Yeah. And she is like freaking out…
N: And finally I just told her, “Getting mad at me isn’t gonna bring your dad back.”
N: And that — K: Set her off?
N: …is when she chilled.
N: Well, she kinda went on another rant but it had nothing to do with Chris and then she apologized to me this morning for being drunk and sad and angry that her dad died.
K: What other new information?
N: Uh…okay…um…Let’s see we’ve got so much going on I didn’t even have time to print this off for you?
K: [Laughter] You-you-you make sure before you leave you see Hazel. You need to get some help.
N: I know. I’ve been asking. Um…oh! He…he was talking for a few weeks like he…
K: Give me a time frame.
N: Ok. Ok. So he went to North Carolina. When he came back from North Carolina I was informed sometime either when he was on the trip or when he was like getting back but in that area that they filed for divorce and that um… they were gonna put the house up.
And he-for sale-and he was like, “She is the one that called the realtor.” ’Cause he told me that he had spoke to her when he was in North Carolina about it and then the next day she was the one who called the realtor.
K: When you say “she”-Shanann?
N: Yes.
K: And when you say- the timeframe they came back from North Carolina: You don’t remember the specific dates? Was it the first or second week of August?
N: And yeah. I think I told you guys when they left. I think he left on Tuesday the 31st of July [2018].
K: I do remember you saying that.
N: And I don’t remember when he came home. I really don’t. I don’t remember if it was like —
K: So was this a phone conversation or is this a text conversation?
N: No. Um. This happened over the phone and he told me that…I don’t know…That was when I had said, “Hey when you go to North Carolina I really think you should try to fix things with your wife.”
And he kept asking, “Well what about us?” And I was trying to kinda take a step back and see if he would fix things before attempting to pursue things with me because I wanted to know that if all of these things he’s saying like “Yes, we’re getting separated” and “Yes..” you know, all of these he’s saying are happening are happening, I wanted to know that it was like you were doing this — like you said you were — prior to me coming in your life.
And it had nothing to do with me, you know? And so for me it was like huh.. I just… I really wanted them to fix it. I would’ve just like left the situation.
K: So tell me why him — Shanann calling the realtor and him mentioning that they were gonna be divorced — N: Was important? — K: Why you think that’s important.
N: Um, because, so after that he was like, “She’s the one who called the realtor.” And I remember I was like, “Damn, that was fast.” ’Cause I knew he told me like “We were gonna put the house up.” But they said, he was like, “We didn’t know how much to offer for it and we were kinda trying to find somebody” and it like so for the first few weeks that I hung out with him he kind of like dragged his feet on, “Hey this is happening.”
And then after North Carolina he’s like, “Yeah, she wants to put the house up.”
“She’s the one that called the realtor.”
And I was like kinda taken aback — not necessarily at the speed of it — given how long he said they’d been separated but the fact that she did it like [snaps her fingers] the day after he supposedly sat down and had a conversation with her about, “Hey do we fix this or do we not fix this relationship?”
K: So do you remember how many days she was back in Colorado before leaving?
N: [Negative sound.] K: Do you know that?
N: Uh un. Because I don’t remember when they got home.
K: Right. N: I don’t.
K: I’m just trying to get your memory jogged there on that.
So this is…they get home…He had told you, North Carolina that they agreed to end their — finalize their relationship.
N: Yeah.
K: They get home and she immediately wants to sell the house.
N: Yeah. And then…so…um…I mean…I started thinking okay, well I know well in Colorado houses sell very fast here so I was like, “What’s your plan?”
N: You know? And I was like, “Because you might wanna be prepared.” And I remember back when the whole concept came up of, “You probably need to start looking for a new place pretty quick” and that was when he was kind of overwhelmed with it and I told him I was like, “Look, I just moved a few months ago.”
Um…and…uh, I was like, to find a place that was comfortable for me it was like…It took like a lot of research. That’s when I offered to help. I was like, “I’ll help you.” And he seemed pretty gung-ho about it for like the first week. And he seemed very grateful and I was putting in work on it.
I was like calling him and kinda letting him know about places and there really wasn’t that many options in Brighton. Um, I found one; I actually texted it to myself before I texted it to him because I was going — I still have that in my phone too — um…
Because I found it and it was great but it was like right at the beginning of my search and then I was like, I don’t want to inundate him —
K: So you said a week. You think you worked on that for a week?
N: No I probably spent like a few hours over a few days just trying to like line it up for him.
K: I’m just trying to think about how many days she had been back while you were working on that.
Do you know what I’m saying?
N: Oh. K: So you said — Did you actually work on it for a week straight?
N: No no no no no no. It was just like a couple days after work. I would just like spend a couple hours if I had time like at the end of my day or if I didn’t go to my gym. And just sit down — I mean I could give you a day of when I worked on it ’cause I texted that one to myself.
This one. I loved this one.
Um… When is this? Saturday, August 11th [2018]
K: That’s the night you guys went out?
N: Uh…yeah.
K: To uh the Lazy Dog.
N: Yes.
K: Or the two, the two lazy dogs. [laughter].
N: Yes.
K: All right. What else?
N: Ummm yeah so the reason that this is important is because he up to that point seemed like he was all about it and I was respecting him. I wasn’t like, “Oh you need to get this, you need to get that.”
I was like, “What city do you want to live in? What side of town is she staying in?”
You know, “How close do you want to be to work? How close do you want to be to your kids?”
I mean I asked him everything. I just wanted him to have something that was accommodating for his whole family.
And he told me that she was probably going to stay in the Frederick area but he never said for sure. The first time I asked him he’s like, “I don’t know where she’s gonna go but she’ll probably stay in this area.
And I was like, “Chris, if you’re gonna get an apartment like you need to figure that out because the last thing you want is to be like an hour drive from your kids.”
It’s like you know, you’ve gotta be close. And so um I ended up asking him again like a couple days later and that was when he was like, “I think she’s staying in the Frederick area.” And I was like, okay.
And that was when I was like starting to get details. And if you guys find my text you’ll see it. When I asked him like, “Where do you want to live?” Like how close do you want to be to work.
Like those things. Like you know um…
Did you care what gym you go to? Like what are you looking for, you know?
K: We talked about this previously.
N: Yeah yeah yeah. So the thing was was he was like super gung-ho about it and then on Saturday, that day, um I remember being outside with him when this conversation happened but I don’t know where.
I don’t know if we were like walking into the restaurant or walking to the car but I like vaguely remember being outside with him and I was like…he had told me that he had wanted to go look at some places that upcoming week.
Him and I were supposed to go do that on Wednesday. And I was like um… I asked him I was like um… ”What places do you want to go see?”
And I was like, “Did you really like that place that I showed you?” Because it was just like super-convenient for everything. It had a little playground and it had a little pool. It would’ve been awesome for his kids.
And it was cheap. And um and so and it was like close to Frederick. It was close to the gym. It was close to work. It was close to me. It was close to everything. And it was in Brighton, which is what he wanted. And so um I was like, “Did you want to go check that place out?”
And he’s like, “Yeah I guess.” And he like didn’t seem sure anymore. And that was the part that I wanted to tell you. I just figured I’d give you all the backstory.
K: Sure. Um so he’s not sure about the particular apartment or about even leaving?
N: So he told me that he looked at it. And he told me that he thought it was nice. But he didn’t really seem like his interest was that piqued. And I was like,”Did you find anything that you really wanted to look at?”
And he told me yeah that he’d found a few. But nothing that really really piqued his interest. And I was like, “You might want to get started.” And he’s like, “I found one.”
And I asked him, I said, “Well, which one is it?” Because I think I’ve looked at like every apartment in Brighton and maybe I’ll remember it.
And he was like, “I don’t know, I don’t remember the name of it.” And he kind of just like disregarded it.
And it was kind of strange to me because like the whole week prior he was like so excited that I was trying to help him because he’s busy, I’m busy.
So I was like, you look, I’ll look. Let’s see if we can try to like narrow it down to like 4 or 5 spots. And then we’ll find something that’s good for you and your girls. You know and he seemed like very enthusiastic about it.
Like during the week when conversations first really starting ramping up about like, “You probably gotta figure something out because that house is gonna sell really fast.” You know? Or at least be prepared.
And so…
K: So why do you think he was removed or not interested on your Saturday night, wherever you guys were?
N: I don’t know I mean sometimes like I think about these things and I feel like they’re all assumptions but at that point maybe he already knew something that I didn’t. I don’t know.
So it was just a complete mood change where he just didn’t even seem that interested and I was like, “Okay.” And I was like, “Well we don’t have to do that on Wednesday if you don’t want to.” He was like, “No no. I know I need to get it done.”
N: And then I was like, all right.
K: Okay.
N: You know because I wasn’t gonna like force him to do it.
N: If he doesn’t want to do it, don’t do it. Just say no. And you know I was like and for me I was just offering to help because I know what a tedious task it is trying to find a new place to live.
K: Right. N: Um…
K: Any other new info you remember?
N: Um, that part where he was just like really unplugged on Saturday and then there was something else that went with that. Let me just think for a minute. It was um… I didn’t realize that I just wrote that part down.
N: I can’t believe I can’t remember all this stuff.
K: Yeah, you’ve remembered so much stuff already.
N: …slowly comes to me all the time. Some of this stuff is just things that you would never think about and then now that I’m like, hindsight’s 20/20. I’m starting to go back. But there’s something else that happened on Saturday…that had to do with all of this.
K: Think about it for a minute and let’s see if my tech guy has his equipment charged.
N: Do that. Do that.
K: We’re gonna get your phone taken care of.
N: Okay.
K: So again: I’m gonna have you sign this voluntary consent.
N: Yep.
K: It’s the same thing that you signed in Thornton saying that, you know, I didn’t threaten you, intimidate you. You have a right to say no.
K: I want you to read the document again. We’re gonna take your phone; we’re gonna use a program called Cellebrite. If you go to your phone store that’s what they use sometimes. They used to do this. They used to move your stuff back and forth. It’s the same thing. Their gonna take that information and then an examiner who is skilled in looking at cell phone data is gonna look at it. To try to recover the deleted material that we’re after.
N: I hope that they can get it.
K: So, the deleted material is what I’m after. Obviously.
N: I know it is. I feel so bad that I did that.
N: I didn’t even honestly like — that’s not even what I was thinking about. I was just so…did not like want any presence from him.
K: So you’re okay with us —
N: Just take the whole phone. Just take it. ’Cause I feel like we’ve been trying —
K: I’m gonna put “all data” on here. Just for ease, okay?
N: Yes. Take what you need.
K: So read that. And make sure you sign it. That you understand that we’re gonna take all the data. Once I have all that stuff, I’ll get your phone back to you.
N: That’s okay. I mean I’m not even gonna use it anymore. I’m just gonna use this one.
K: Okay. I’m gonna still get it back to you as soon as we’re done.
N: Okay. K: All right, so.
K: Next week sometime maybe? N: Okay.
K: Or the week after, something like, somewhere in that timeframe. Okay?
N: Okay.
K: All right. Relax for a minute. I’ll be back in a sec.
N: Oh…I got it! I got it! I got it! I got it!
N: I remembered, by the way. I got it.
K: Remembered what?
N: In my head. What I needed to tell you.
K: Okay. N: Okay.
N: So…Hi! M: Hi, I’m Matt.
N: I’m Nikki. M: Nice to meet you. N: Hello.
N: Um. So this is my original phone that these guys would like to have.
M: Okay.
N: I have a lot of contacts on here that are not on the phone that I’m currently transferring to. And a lot of them [giggle] I need to have. Um, it would be greatly appreciated if we could get to the contacts from this phone to just go to this phone so that all the text messages and everything have like names and things connected to them.
M: Right. Okay.
N: So that I can. That’s all I want to do. And I went to Verizon to switch to this phone and all they did was give me this little sheet of paper…to follow, which seems very simple and I’m usually pretty tech-savvy except for the fact that I can’t get the App Store to work on this phone and I can’t get the WiFi to work on this phone.
[Laughter]
N: So that is the dilemma that I’m in.
M: All right.
N: So if you would be so kind as to just sync that up so I can give them what they need to end some…
K: I am not good on phone things.
N: I’m usually pretty tech savvy. After working in the oil field you gotta get creative about things. They have technology but you’re like in the sticks so everything wants to malfunction.
M: So are your contacts in this phone synced to the cloud — to the iCloud?
N: I don’t know. M: Okay.
N: I mean, some messages came over so I assume that everything is? But I don’t really know.
N: So maybe I’m not as tech-savvy as I thought.
K: What’d you remember? You just said you remembered something besides that.
N: Oh. You want to have this conversation right now?
K: He’s an agent. He works with me. He knows about this case.
M: I can step out if you feel more comfortable.
N: Uh no, I mean, I don’t know. Whatever.
K: You tell me.
N: He had a [Amazon] fire stick.
N: He kept talking about — Do you know what a fire stick is?
K: No. N: Okay. You probably do, since you’re a tech guy.
N: They’re like —
K: Oh, you mean like an Amazon fire stick?
N: Yeah yeah yeah.
K: Okay.
N: Okay, so he did not have it in his possession —
K: Who’s he? Chris?
N: Yes, so Chris mentioned to me that on Saturday, that same day, um…that…Oh!
’Cause this kind of went hand-in-hand with the whole like apartment talk. ’Cause I was like…Oh that apartment that he said he found that he was like, I was like, “What’s it called?”
And he was like, “I don’t remember.”
And I was like, “Well how much is it?”
He was like, “It’s close to $1,100.” And I was really taken aback by that ’cause I pay more than that and I don’t really have that nice of a place and it’s not a 2-bedroom. It’s a one.
So that part kind of seemed odd to me but I’d seen a few things online that were kind of cheap and I was just like all right and he’s like, “I’m just trying to cut costs.”
I was like, “That’s cool. Like how else are you doing that?” And it was just out of curiosity and he was like, “Well I decided to get rid of cable.”
And I was like, “Okay.” And I was kinda taken aback by that too because he loves sports. Dude like lives and breathes football. So I uh I was like okay.
And I was like that’s a good cost to-you know-to cut back on. And he was like, “Yeah I think I can watch, still stream sports via a fire stick.” And I’ve heard of those things before. I don’t really know a lot about them.
Ummmmmm… but he was saying he had a buddy working on it already for him.
K: Who’s the buddy?
N: He didn’t say. I didn’t ask.
K: Why do you think that’s important?
N: That he had all that set up? I don’t know…
N: I mean it made me believe that he was…
K: That he was ready to move out? Is that?
N: Oh! I get what you’re saying. Yeah.
K: That he was ready to go.
N: Yeah Like was prepping. It still sounded like he was prepping. I mean everything he did it still sounded like he was getting ready for everything to happen. Then the thing that I found really peculiar about the whole situation was the fact that he just kind of seemed disconnected about the apartment thing…On Saturday, whereas in previous conversations he was the one who brought it up.
And he was the one who seemed really excited about it when I offered to help him do some like leg work on trying to find him a spot for him and his girls.
M: Right, I’ll be right back.
K: Okay.
N: So I don’t…I don’t know who his friend was. It was just weird because sometimes it seemed like some of the things he said he was still really — A lot of things he said made sense. And still to this day make sense. And then other things that he said don’t make sense at all to me anymore.
N: Or like they change.
K: Well you know a lot more now, well unfortunately, you know a lot more now about terrible things that may have happened to change the way you’re thinking about what he said, too.
K: So…making you think differently about those kind of — that verbiage. Right?
N: Yeeeeaaahhhhhhh……definitely.
K: Okay.
K: So N: I think
K: We talked a lot about a lot of different things.
N: I hope I’m helping.
K: You def — you certainly are.
N: I hope so ’cause I’m so — I don’t like having this stuff on the top of my head that it’s so hard and so many days I can tell that my mind is trying to like…block it all out right now and I think it’s almost like a subliminal like coping mechanism and I’m trying not to.
I’m trying to like think about it so I can help you guys out and I just, that’s why I…
K: Why don’t you give yourself a break for a day or two and just live a normal life. Stop thinking about this stuff for a day or two and then revisit it. Maybe that’ll help you because you look like you’re tired again.
N: I lost my job yesterday so that’s where that comes from.
K: You lost your job with the Geosciences place as well? Okay. I’m sorry to hear that.
N: Unintelligible.
K: You mentioned with your skillset you should be easily employable in another…uh…locale?
N: I don’t know. I — you know — I hope somebody hires me. I hope people don’t see my name on a résumé and just not hire me.
K: Well your name hasn’t even made it in the papers yet.
N: Not yet.
K: So…Remember you said you had some new locations you could go out of state? Maybe — I don’t know if that’s what you’re thinking or…
N: Yeah…
K: Whatever’s gonna work for you.
N: Yeah, I’m thinking a lot about all of that and it’s just a matter of timing and trying to figure out when to do it. Don’t attempt to do it all too soon, I don’t have to do it all over again.
K: Tell me the name of the Geosciences company?
N: Tasman. K: Tasman.
N: I think I was just so bummed because they told me that they would keep me and then they called me back and let me go and I was just like, “Man.”
K: So did they essentially fire you — N: Yes… — for lack of a better term? And that was yesterday?
N: Yep.
N: They said they let me go because they hired me to do a contract job and now that contract was over. Which is unfortunate because Anadarko actually offered to pay me for awhile and Tasman said no.
N: So…I just wish they would’ve been honest with me in the first place. But…it is what it is.
K: So now you’re out looking for a job, too?
N: I haven’t even tried doing that. It’s not even like a priority to me at this point. But I will get Doll — I mean Hazel to help me out with this lease and…
Sell my truck and change my entire life and hopefully somebody somewhere will give me a decent job and give me a chance and not judge for all of this whole disaster.
N: So that’s why it’s —
K: You said Hazel was gonna — was helping you out with some of your lease stuff.
N: Correct. Oh! Yeah.
K: All right so when you’re here — I think she usually comes in in the afternoon today so check with her.
Woman: Hey I think Matt just left the ? looking for me, but he’ll fine eventually.
K: Awesome. So he must want this for something.
N: I want to charge my phone.
N: I didn’t charge it last night. I charged it —
K: This one?
N: Here.
K: What’s this? Oh this is your? This is the Verizon call logs?
N: Through the 13th.
K: From what date to what date? You want this one back?
N: I don’t — it’s a month. I don’t know.
M: Sorry. K: You’re good.
N: I don’t. It’s a month. So it’s probably whenever 30 days was. Probably July 14th I’d assume to August 13th. You’ll see it.
N: When you open it up you’ll see it. Like a month.
K: Can I just take this real quick and move it off your thumb drive and I’ll give you your thumb drive —
N: You can do whatever you want.
K: Okay.
N: That’s yours. Um…
K: You don’t need this back? [Loud ringing.]
N: Um…No. I mean you can give it back if you want.
K: Yeah, I’ll just go download this to my computer real quick.
N: There’s so, I think, so it’s a month. It ended on the 13th. And that’s why I was saying when they bill me next month then I can give you the 14th and past that. And I could’ve given you the 14th now but because they haven’t billed me for it…Like this is in a nice PDF but the-the-ther unbilled one is like in this janky Excel format and you can like manipulate the data.
N: Like I don’t — I don’t want to give you that…
K: So what is on here specifically? PDF of your complete phone bill for your cell phone?
N: That ends on August 13th.
N: I think after that —
K: I’m gonna go put this on my phone. I’m gonna go put this on my computer.
N: My lease agreement is on there and I told Hazel that you had it.
K: Okay.
N: [Crosstalk] So can you go give that to her because she needs that,
K: Yep, I will.
N: And then um…my…there’s also like a computer record of me talking to the Verizon Wireless people asking them if they can restore my texts and what they had to say about it just so that you guys know that I did the due diligence to attempt to do that.
K: Sure. Okay.
N: So those are the two things that are on there.
K: So there — the messages that synced up when you started are on this phone, right?
N: Hm mn.
K: So when she started — like this phone is 2 years old? —
M: Okay.
K: But when she turned it on a bunch of deleted messages from Chris that were on that phone synced up with that phone.
M: Okay. K: So that’s the one I want to try to rip.
M: Okay so we’re gonna download this phon; this one get the contacts —
K: This one’s coming and going with us. Exactly. So this one’s gonna be coming with us as evidence. That one we’ll just rip so she has a phone.
M: Okay. I need you to login to Google.
N: I’m just trying to figure this out I don’t know if I know my password.
M: Oh, okay.
M: Mnn…That might be an issue.
N: I knnnooowwww... [Laughter] I mean if you guys really can’t do it I’m sure I can go through and figure out who —
M: Well there’s another way we can do it. So we can try.
N: Man. [Sniff] I’m usually really good about passwords but this one I am not.
N: I don’t know. I really don’t.
M: Okay.
N: I was messing with this before you walked in here.
M: Okay.
M: And that’s the only way you can download apps, right?
N: Was through this? M: Yeah.
N: I mean I’ll have to figure it out.
M: I’m not — I’m not an Android guy so I don’t know.
N: I don’t know. I never — I haven’t used an Android phone in like two years.
M: Okay.
N: I guess I’ll have to figure this out. That sucks but it’s okay.
M: Nope there’s another. There’s another thing that we can try.
N: Sorry. It’s an inconvenience.
M: Nope. Did you have text messages? So when I hooked up to WiFi I think you got a couple more extra.
N: Oh I got these. Yeah those came in on my other phone. This was like right when I transferred.
M: Ummmm….so I think your contacts should be connected to the iCloud now. So you shouldn’t lose ’em. And we can use — we can try and use our down — the machine that we use to download the phones can also transfer.
N: That’ll be —
M: I’ve never done that so I don’t know how it’s gonna go but we’re gonna give it a shot.
N: Okay.
N: It’s just that would be so nice because I was looking at these messages and I was like OMG like, “Don’t know, don’t know, don’t know, don’t know, don’t know, don’t know…”
I mean again, I’m sure I could figure it out pretty quick if I read the text [trouble?] but they’re all different.
M: Okay.
N: You would just save me a lot of time. And stress.
M: We’re keeping this one? N: Yes.
M: Downloading it and giving it back.
N: Yeah and then this one I think he only needs one number off of it and that one you guys will take everything.
M: Yeah. But we’re keeping this phone, right?
N: Yeah. M: Okay. N: That’s yours. M: Okay.
Thanks. All right. Let me go see if I can transfer the contacts.
N: Do you want the wall charger to go with you?
M: I’ll just put it here so I won’t forget it but I don’t need it right now. I will be right back. Or in a little bit.
N: I don’t know what the heck it is…
H = Hazel the Victim Advocate
H: Hi Nikki. N: Hello
H: How are you doing?
N: I’m all right. I like your little blouse. That’s adorable.
H: Thank you. Thank you.
H: So I don’t want to take too much time but I just wanted to say hello.
N: Hi. H: How’re you doing? N: All right.
H: I hope we can.
K: I’m gonna step — I’m gonna step out.
H: Okay.
K: Do you have the? I have that now. I have the lease. I’ll give it to Hazel, okay? Um…did he get your phone taken care of?
N: I don’t know. He took ’em both. He said he was gonna try.
K: I’ll step out for a few minutes. Give you guys a few seconds.
H: Okay. All right.
K: If you remember anything else, we’ll talk before you leave. All right? Um…Hazel said she knew that you had been fired so um maybe get some advice on that, too. About potentially leaving here and starting — starting anew somewhere else. Probably is a good — good thing. All right? I’ll be back in a few minutes.
H: So, I know Anadarko you got fired but the other company as well?
H: Thank you.
N: Yeah, well, Anadarko just terminated my contract. I mean I don’t blame them. It’s just not a good look to be…
H: Yeah.
N: They offered — they were concerned and they offered to pay for like a few weeks.
H: Well that’s — that is pretty generous.
N: It was very generous and Tasman [Geosciences] cut it off.
They’re just like, “We don’t want to bill the contractor if you’re not actually working.”
It’s like I respect that, you know? I just…I don’t know, I think uh…Kind of disappointed because they told me…You know I informed them of my situation and then they contacted me like a day later and they said, “Oh, you’re good. Don’t worry about it. And they contacted me the day after and pretty much just let me go. It’s like, just be honest.
H: Well did they give you another job or another appointment?
N: They would have had to “of”.
And I kind of had a solution for that situation too but they didn’t seem like they were all about it. So, I mean it is what it is.
I’ve only been working with them for like 4 months [since ~April 2018] and they don’t really know me that well.
H: Tasman? N: Hm mn.
H: And so are they saying that your contract with them is also terminated? Or that you just aren’t working at Anadarko anymore and they’ll find you another position?
N: They told me originally that if I wasn’t gonna work at Anadarko they’d find another place to put me. And then they came back yesterday night and said…Since you’re not con — we hired you for the contract with Anadarko and since your contract with them is terminated we’re letting you go.
H: Did you call the person ? been communicating with ?
N: No. I just spent all day trying to do stuff for these guys (H: Yeah.) so — I haven’t had a chance.
H: I think it might be helpful to talk to him. See what he has to say about it. And see if there’s any — you know, he’ll probably ask you what your contact with him was. And ask you for some more details. And see if there’s any way that legally he can help you out or if he can create some sort of mediation or something like that. At the very least negotiate a positive referral to another agency or something.
N: I mean they told me they’d give me that. He seemed really taken aback when I asked him but I was like, “Can you at least give me a positive referral?” I mean I did great work for those guys.
H: Hm mn.
N: They’re definitely gonna miss me being on their team for sure. And he was like, “Yeah yeah I’ll do that.” Like okay. I mean I didn’t really know what else to do.
I was — was just like one more thing on my plate right now. I just — I don’t know what to do. I don’t think anybody’s gonna hire me.
H: Well I think that right now what you need to worry about —
It sounds like you have a really good supportive family and people that can help you get through for a few weeks while you’re looking for work.
So I think right now you need to just concentrate on getting your lease situation worked out so you don’t have to worry about carrying two places.
And getting everything worked out with victim comp [victim compensation] so that you can get started into some therapy.
N: Yeah like ??? hire me. My name’s in the media, like, “Why would you do that?”
H: Well, it hasn’t been yet. And it doesn’t mean —
Businesses won’t necessarily — the hiring agents won’t necessarily have watched the news or…And if they do I think if you just explain to them that you’re doing everything you can to cooperate with law enforcement.
You do what you can to have it not impact your job. And you know your work — both at Anadarko…is a good testament to what a good worker you are.
Through all this you kept going to work. You kept doing your job. You were responsible towards your agency. You informed them about what was going on. You did everything you needed to do.
N: I just don’t think people are gonna hire me. I have a feeling that trying to get by for the next like 5 or 10 years is about to be real real…
H: Okay well. I think that thinking that way is gonna be a little self-defeating. So let’s try to take care of what we can take care of and try to build things up for you so that you have the most positive prospects for the future.
N: I mean I just don’t even know where to start. Like I have friends that can give me a referral but what I don’t want to do is have my friends give me a referral and then they see the news and then they are very taken back [sic] and then I think some people would be kind of upset if I asked them for a referral prior to the news breaking.
You almost feel like waiting till it breaks to like try to approach people.
H: Well have you tried thinking about a new temporary agency or something? You know like Kelly Girls? I mean I know they don’t pay well but something like that? I know that’s well below your skill level.
N: I don’t know. I’ll probably go back to the oil fields at some point. Most of those people are a bunch of societal outcasts so it might work.
Were you happy? Huh?
H: Were you happy when you worked there?
N: Sometimes. H: Yeah?
N: Sometimes not.
H: But it wouldn’t be torture to go back to that?
N: No it’s all I know.
H: Well I think fall back at least until all this tapers off a little bit.
N: I mean if people hire me. It’s hard to get a job out there ’cause I’m a woman.
H: Yeah.
N: They don’t think you can do it.
H: [Inaudible] Well you’ll have history…and that goes a long way.
N: Yeah, we’ll see.
H: So I understand that I, Agent Koback was given — has a copy of your lease.
So I’ll talk with your landlord and see where we can get as far as getting you out of that. And then I have a list of…referrals for you for therapists.
N: Thank you. And did they approve it?
H: They haven’t yet but they said they should by the end of the day or early tomorrow. It just has to go through a procedure. You know it’s-it’s the government.
They’re figuring out the procedure. They’re just going through the procedure.
But you can get started in the meantime calling the therapists and just…doing little interviews with them you know like we talked about just make sure it’s somebody that you feel confident with. And that you feel comfortable you can say anything to.
N: Understood.
H: You know I would also ask them, just because I know you have a hard time sleeping and I know that this bothers you all the time that you could wake up in the middle of the night having issues…
You want to also talk to the therapist about what kind of after-hours support you can get. And do they have an emergency line or somebody that you can talk to if it is 4 o’clock in the morning and you haven’t been able to sleep all night?
And if you need some help making those phone calls, I’ll get you on and I could help you.
N: Thank you. Okay.
I’m like man, just doing everything I need to do everyday. There’s nothing else to do.
H: I know you’re feeling pretty overwhelmed and it just seems like it’s — getting, coming out.
N: Getting worse and worse and worse and worse…
H: Yeah. You know that we are here for you. You do have support.
N: Okay.
H: You do have support.
N: Yeah the media came to my house and left a letter. Like old crinkly envelope. A piece of journal paper that was all crumbled, handwritten in chicken scratch.
Like, “Hi, I’m with the Today Show, you should call me.”
It’s like, why would I do that in the first place? But even then like the lack of professionalism that my family has seen from these news reporters is absolutely ridiculous.
H: And you’re just ignoring them?
N: Yeah. I mean they don’t have my phone number yet. They still haven’t found it.
H: Well that’s good and you’re not at your home?
N: No.
H: And your dad’s pretty good about saying no and walking away.
N: They’re contacting everybody but so many people reach out to me, “The media called me today.”
H: And you know all they have to say is that they don’t know anything about it and they don’t have any comment or…
N: That’s what I told them —
H: Or, “I just don’t want to talk to you.”
N: No comment or you don’t know. And I was like, “You don’t have to talk to them.” I was like, “You don’t have to call ’em back; you don’t owe ’em anything.”
Just send your love and support. I haven’t said anything else because I don’t really know what else to say.
H: No that’s good.
N: But I’ve had to do it with a lot of people and it wasn’t something I wanted to do. I was trying to avoid that situation but I’ve just been like inundated with phone calls and texts about it so I was like, all right, talked to my dad and I was like, “Do we do damage control on the rest of these people? So that they’re prepared or not?”
And he was like, “Yeah, we’ll do it.” So I just called like my closest friends and I didn’t say anything about the case and that I was a witness I just told them, I was like, “Hey man, I need you to do this for me, like if the media asks any questions just tell them ‘No comment.’ Please take all the pictures that you have of us off of social media. I love you and I’m safe. Uh…and I didn’t break any laws.’”
H: Ha that’s good.
N: Well ’cause they started freaking out like, “What did you do?” And I’m like no it’s okay. You just help me please so. I mean so far it’s working.
H: Well and then we talked about that: How you believed that your friends and your family would at least for awhile be supportive not knowing anything, just knowing that you needed their love and support.
N: I mean it’s been 4 days that they’ve been searching for me and they haven’t found me yet. I’m sure they will eventually but I mean 4 days is — it’s not a bad start.
H: I think you’re right and…
N: And they still haven’t found my phone number.
H: And you do have a plan…to just say no and hang up. Don’t answer the door. Don’t answer the phone. You’ll have Caller ID so you’ll know if it’s your family or your friends. And you have a voicemail that you can — that they can leave a message if they want if it’s family. Everybody else you can just ignore. You don’t have any obligation to talk to any of them.
N: Right. That’s pretty much where it’s at. I know it’s kinda just like one task at a time. Every day there’s something else. I’m here and they got my phone so hopefully they can get what they need.
H: Good.
N: Hopefully it’ll help. I’m just trying to do everything they can but it’s like at this point I don’t even know what to do anymore. I like really want to just start taking care of myself and not everybody else and I feel like it’s just not happening.
H: Oh but Nikki that’s all you do have to right now: Take care of yourself. There’s really no one else that you have to take care of right now. You know let your friends, let your family take care of you. They can offer you support. You’re doing everything that we’ve asked of you.
And you just need now to take care of yourself and get yourself through this. And let your family support you. And let your friends support you. You don’t have to take care of them.
You’ve done what you need to do for them. You’ve told them I’m in a situation which I just need you to support me in. Unconditionally support me. And that’s all the taking care of them you need to do right now. They’ll be plenty of time for the rest of your life to take care of people. Right now you just need people to take care of you.
Nichol Kessinger: That’d be nice.
H: I know I asked you this before, but I’m gonna ask you again. Um, are you still feeling like you’re not thinking at all about suicide or hurting yourself?
N: No. I’m not thinking about any of that.
H: Okay good. And you promise me you’ll let us know if you start thinking that way?
N: I text you guys in the middle of the night every time I’m stressing out.
H: Okay, so you will.
H: Okay because we want to be here to help you. We don’t want this to turn into another tragedy for you.
N: Understood.
H: Well I didn’t know what time you were coming in today and I have another appointment that’s coming in —
N: That’s okay. Okay.
H: So I’m gonna see what Agent Koback is up to.
N: That’s okay.
H: So that you’re not sitting in here all by yourself.
H: This is not a pleasant room to be hanging out in.
N: No not at all…it’s awkward. They have my phone and I’ll just sit here.
H: Oh! Actually I don’t have to go find out where he is.
K: We’re trying to get your phones to work. But you don’t remember your Google account?
N: I should. To be honest with you it’s like programmed into my — my — the two places I use it all the time. And so I don’t have to remember it. [Giggles]
K: So the only way to transfer your contacts from that phone — from your iPhone to that phone is with your Google account.
N: I mean if I need to I know where to —
K: We’re gonna print your — We downloaded ’em so we have the file available we can print it for you.
N: Can you do that?
K: Yep.
N: That’d be nice.
K: But we can’t…
K: We can’t move the phone.
N: That’s okay.
K: So your phone is essentially — You won’t be able to download apps or anything like that without your Google account.
N: Okay.
K: So but you do know it?
N: Do I know my Google account?
K: Yeah.
N: No if I did then we wouldn’t be in this situation. [Giggles]
K: But you know — you got it somewhere else?
N: Uh yeah I’m sure I could like reset it and figure it out…at this point.
K: We’re just making sure you have a phone that’s going to be usable.
N: Yeah I mean I can make incoming and outgoing calls at this point that’s all I really care about.
K: So he’s gonna download the messages that uploaded when you redid your phone so…that take — it shouldn’t take too long.
N: Well there’s not much on there…it’s pretty short.
K: Should take just a few minutes and then we’re done.
N: They’re all like — they’re not even on the right dates, some of ’em. It’s really weird how they’re timestamped.
K: Okay.
N: Like there’s one on there on the 13th [day of murders] and I’m like, I’m pretty sure that was a conversation that —
K: Between you and Chris?
N: Yeah but it was like not that same day.
K: The 13th was a Wednesday [Koback is wrong. August 13, 2018, was a Monday]
N: Or the 12th. I don’t — I don’t even know.
K: All right. We’ll duplicate —
N: It’s not in the right spot. They’re not in the right spot.
K: Maybe the date on the phone is messed up. I don’t know. I’ll look at the phone. We’ll see.
N: Well it’s out of order. Like unless I’m confused but I’m pretty sure like the last text on there between me and him is actually probably somewhere in the middle of the text.
K: So when you sat out of order like…
N: Like it’s saying hey this happened on Tuesday but I’m pretty sure that that happened at a different point. Only that one.
K: All right. So if it’s critical we’ll talk about it.
N: I know.
K: I need to look at the texts first before I know. Okay?
N: Of course. Understood.
K: You probably wanna go? Right?
H: Yeah. I don’t want to —
K: You have your next client coming in.
N: Thank you for your time. I appreciate it.
H: Oh yeah. You’re welcome and I’ll send you those therapists and get started and give them a call and see who you think is gonna be a good fit for you.
You can have it ready so when Victim Comp says yes, you can get started right away.
N: Thank you.
H: And if you need any help making those calls — you start making them and realize you just can’t do it on your own, just call me and I can just call with you and be there with you while you’re making those calls.
N: Thanks
H: And if you want to, try to give the guy from CDLE [Colorado Department of Labor & Employment] a call and talk with him.
N: I will definitely call him. That is on my priority list at this point. I just — I don’t want to talk to them.
H: No I understand that. I understand. And then I’m sure he’ll say it depends on what your contract says so if you have your contract with them where your dad can get to it — It’s probably at your house? If you can have it where your dad can get to it or something for you to send to him that’d probably be really helpful.
N: I have it. It’s all remote, it’s all electronic.
H: Okay good.
N: I don’t have to go back to the house at all.
H: Okay good.
K: Thank you so much, Hazel.
H: And call or text me anytime okay?
N: Hm mn.
K: All right. I’m gonna see where he’s at. Well, anything else while we’re here?
That you can think of or want to address or you remember?
N: Sometimes I feel like I remember stuff but it’s like vague.
N: Like I’m like I can’t I don’t know…
K: And not everything’s important obviously.
N: Yeah.
K: I know I’ve tried to get you to remember as much as I could. Because a lot of the stuff that you have told me over the last couple conversations is relative and it’s important and I appreciate you going back and looking at calendars and doing all that stuff. But stop thinking about this for awhile.
I think we’ve got the — everything — [laughs] — I don’t think you can remember anything more. We’ve had a lot of conversations about this case, so just give yourself a break. Go have dinner with one of your friends and have a — nobody knows who you are.
N: Not yet…
K: So even better to make that happen. Whoever you trust in, like Charlotte or whoever your other friends are, go have a normal night and not sit at your house and dwell on this. It might do you wonders, okay?
N: Ah…are they gonna post anything if they don’t find out anything? ’Cause I’m just surprised they haven’t posted anything yet.
K: About what?
N: About me. I mean it’s been 4 days…
K: You know that they are dying to find out who you are.
N: I know. They haven’t even reached my inner circle yet and it’s been 4 days.
K: You got good friends.
N: Yes I do.
K: So be thankful for that and I — we’ve had this conversation. Is it — you know, you said you’re thinking about going somewhere else? Go.
N: I don’t know when I’m gonna do that. Can you guys help me with a name change? Like dude I’m serious. Please?
K: So I can’t do anything for you. That’s a legal process. It’s really not that difficult. Uh…there’s just paperwork that needs to be filled out. I think your best bet would be to call, maybe ask an attorney to help you with that.
Or seek advice from — I don’t even know who you call. Honestly, but, people change their name all the time when they get married. Uh, so it’s probably the county clerk.
But it’s gonna I think it would have to be at a state level to make a name change. But I don’t know specifically how to do that. I don’t.
N: Does that like become public because that would defeat the purpose?
K: I don’t know. I know it can be done. I just don’t know how to do it. And I wouldn’t even know who to reach out — I mean I could find out and let you know. But I don’t know how to do it. Um…you know like the witness protection thing is very very rare.
N: I’m not expecting that. (K: Yes) I — he’s not going anywhere.
K: He’s not gonna hurt you, all those things. So —
N: I’m not expecting that. I don’t even know. Like sometimes I’m like I just want to do it now. I’m like, why? Because if they —
K: But if you go to another state —
N: It would defeat the purpose if you know. A part of me I keep getting really scared that it’s going to be really hard to find good employment for like a really long time. Like years and years and years of my life. I feel like people aren’t gonna want to hire me.
K: If you go to another state this is not headlines in that state. You realize that?
N: I mean, I-I-yeah. I do.
K: And if I do a background on you, you’re a good employee. It doesn’t come up that you dated Chris Watts. And you’re involved in this case. It doesn’t work that way. So I wouldn’t worry too much about that.
N: But I mean I don’t know. I just feel like this is one of those things that if it goes to court it’s gonna be like huge.
K: Well, I mean it’s national right now but it’s not like — you know it’s not the theater event that happened in Aurora 7 years ago, right? That everybody in the world knew about. It’s not that.
So I — certainly for you you’re under the microscope and you’re feeling it. And nothing anybody can say can change that for you. So I get it but I don’t — I think you need to just step back for a minute.
Take a breath. Figure out what you’re gonna do. Obviously you have some serious — very serious decisions to make over the next — you know — couple months.
N: I know. I’m trying to find out how to do all this without spending all my savings.
K: [Laughs]
N: Saving up for a house. I’m just like dammit.
K: Well at least you have savings to fall back on too. A lot of people can’t say that.
N: Yeah that is true. Well since they fired me hopefully I’ll get unemployment for a little while so I can like get my mind right, go to therapy and then go back to work at that point ’cause I am not ready, so…
K: Going back to work might be a good thing for you though than you know sittin’ and thinking about this every day.
N: I know. I agree with that but finding a job is the big task. That’s what I told her, she’s like, “Why don’t you reach out to some of your friends…about a job.” It’s like well… [Nikki mimics Hazel the Victim Advocate]
K: But they don’t know who — what’s going on.
N: No they don’t now, but what I don’t want is for somebody to give me a reference and then they find out what’s going on. I think that’s really disrespectful.
K: I think you reach out specifically to an employer not a person. Other — I don’t know anything about the oil industry. But other companies like — who you work for. I have this skill. And I’d like to come to work for you.
N: I’ve been thinking about it. I was thinking about reaching out to some old employers. I’ve always been a really good employee to those people. Everybody when I leave is pretty disappointed. This is the first time I’ve ever been terminated from a job. So…
K: Sometimes that can be tough to get over, too.
N: It’s hard. This was like the dream job. I feel awful about all of this. Like I wanted that for so long to get out of the oil fields. I was so tired of living on oil rigs. It’s such a rough life. Like I just want to be in the office somewhere doing environmental for an oil company and I finally got it and all this happened.
K: Well you have that skill set now so maybe you can move back into that.
N: I hope so. We will see. Um…I forgot what I was gonna say.
N: Are you guys…am I in trouble because I deleted his text?
K: You’re not in trouble.
N: I didn’t know what was going on at that point.
K: So is there a ques — does that cause questions?
N & K: Of course it does.
K: Now there is — but is it criminal? No. Is there a concern that you’re hiding something? Potentially. That’s why I want ’em or I wouldn’t be asking for ‘em.
N: I know I’m trying to give you guys that.
K: You’ve been up front with me about everything. I don’t have a concern that you ever told Chris, “I don’t want you — “ you know, “Go kill your wife.”
N: No. Hell no.
K: Or, “Get rid of your kids.” Or, “I don’t want to date you if you have kids.” None of those things ever came out of your mouth. We talked about that.
N: Yeah.
K: So…but until those text messages that are deleted um are there you know and all that it’s just speculation.
But it’s kinda like hm why did you do that? And I get your excuse. I understand what you’re saying. That on Tuesday you realized who this man was and what he had done. You didn’t want him to be part of your life anymore so you got rid of it.
N: I didn’t even want to see it in my phone. It was like freaking me out. Cause I remember I had like deleted them…And then he sent me another text. And then I deleted that one too.
K: Right.
N: Cause I was like I don’t want to deal with this. By the way, when you’re looking through those texts, look for his APC phone for that one conversation we had where he screenshotted me what he did on Monday. Remember that?
K: Hm mn. N: Yeah. K: And you said…that’s his Anadarko phone?
N: Uh un.
K: Okay.
N: And that should be the only like recent. Like there’s probably stuff that if you guys are able to pull up like way way back that we talked but nothing —
K: The thing we talked about was him proving that he went to the oil field.
N: That he went to work.
K: That he went to work that morning. At whatever site he was supposed to go to to check on the leaks.
N: So that will be in there. Okay, okay, all right. And then um I don’t know. Am I allowed to like address my friends and tell them please no comment to the media?
K: You can say anything you want.
N: I mean I haven’t been telling them anything else.
K: I would not talk with anybody about any of this case.
N: Oh no.
K: Except I know you talked to — you need to talk to — a therapist and I’m sure you’re talking to your dad.
K: Probably your closest person.
N: To some extent I mean what’s not — when he’s not here for this I don’t tell him about this. I tell him I’m coming down here but he doesn’t need to know any more. He’s so stressed out.
K: You’re an adult. You made some decisions that caught you in a bad situation. But there’s nothing wrong with you talking to somebody. I just wouldn’t go into details.
N: No. I didn’t even tell people I’m a witness for anything…
K: Certainly your best — I mean if I was you I’d be confiding in my best friend like, “Hey this is what’s happening in my life and I need help.” Is there anything wrong with that? No.
N: I mean that’s about as far as confiding has gone with me telling her about some guy I was hanging out with but that was like way before any of this.
K: Yeah and you need support right now, too. So you do — there is no — we’re not — you’re not in trouble. There’s no charges against you. You’re simply a witness.
N: I just don’t want to like get in trouble for like talking to like my dad — or like asking a friend for help.
K: About what?
N: Well I mean like what my dad already knows. You know what I’m saying?
K: Right. There’s nothing to get in trouble for. [Laughs]
N: Okay, I don’t know how that works. That’s why I’m asking…This is one more thing I don’t need on my plate. ’Cause I just OMG…
K: You’re not — you’re not in trouble. And talking to your friends and family about what’s going on isn’t gonna get you in trouble. Okay?
N: I don’t even want to talk to my friends about it. I don’t even want anybody to know. I mean they’re gonna find out but I figured — the reasons that I think I’m staking out from the media as long as I have been is because nobody knows anything. And ’cause my inner circle’s really awesome.
K: Maybe.
N: I don’t know. They haven’t even reached my —
K: Or they just — because you’re not on social media?
N: At all. But I mean I eliminated all of that like even have the ability to go through — I went and found everybody I knew that had any public posts and was just like, “This needs to be cleared.” It’s all gone.
K: Right. So you’ve made it very difficult for them to find you. But do I think eventually that at some point they are gonna find you? Sure. Of course.
N: Do you think they’re gonna find where I’m staying at? I think that would be really tricky.
K: I don’t know I — you haven’t even told me where you’re staying.
N: Nobody knows.
K: I don’t know how it’s connected to you or your family. So…I mean if it’s in your family’s name certainly it wouldn’t be that hard to figure it out. So if that — you know. There’s ways to find out where people are staying but they’re limited. Unless somebody knows about this place that talks to ‘em.
N: Nobody. All right. My dad doesn’t even know where it’s at.
K: Let me check on this. Let me check on this phone.
N: Oh yeah that’s right I’m like, “Am I ready to go?”
N: My phone…
K: I know you’re ready to go. [laughs] So he’s printing the — your contacts. Be back in a minute.
Okay. There’s those.
K: And he’s still messing with your phone. Give me a few minutes, okay?
K: Back in a minute. Did you sign that?
N: Yes. Should be — K: There it is. All right. Do you want a copy of that?
N: Ah sure that would be…
K: I’ll be back in a minute.
N: Oh you guys got this all printed up.
K: You all right?
N: One more question for you.
K: Yeah.
N: Um…I have jury duty on September 17th.
N: Is that something that I can do? K: Of course.
N: Given the fact that I’m like mid in this mess.
K: Yep. N: Okay.
K: So just answer the questions — they’re gonna ask you a bunch of questions. Answer ’em truthfully. Um…Yeah. I wouldn’t — I wouldn’t avoid it.
N: I just didn’t know.
K: Have you ever gone to jury duty?
N: I was supposed to go once and they didn’t need me but I just wanted to like double check.
K: No. It has no bearing on what’s going on in this. So you’re all right. I think he’s still trying to get your phone together.
N: Oh…can I use the restroom? K: Yeah. You need to?
N: Can I leave my stuff in here…and come back in here? K: Yep.
N: Thanks.
K: I’ll be right back.
K: Thanks man. (Sorry.) Ah that’s all right. Just having a bad day. Okay. Will you show me the messages that downloaded? I’m gonna take photographs of ’em because the device that we’re using doesn’t want to work.
N: ???
K: I don’t know.
N: Oh for those?
K: The messages that came from Chris. That you said showed up on the phone.
N: Yeah I don’t think any of the ones from the Anadarko phone came in but I don’t know that number.
K: Okay.
N: I didn’t see ’em but maybe there’s — maybe you guys can give me the number we can check that out, too.
K: Um…I can probably get it real quick. Show me the ones that you think came from him though. Is it 9…?
N: I’ll show you…901…just give me a sec. Boom. Right there.
K: Okay so I am going to take photographs of these in lieu of downloading it.
N: Do you want me to just screenshot them and send them to you?
K: Well but there’s no way to do that.
N: No I mean just screenshot right here.
K: This isn’t hooked up to WiFi or anything, is it?
N: No but I’m saying if —
K: Oh, I see what you’re saying.
N: It’ll come in clearer, that’s what I’m saying. You can watch me do it.
K: Yeah. N: I’m gonna screenshot ’em and text ’em to you right now.
K: Or you can email ’em to me.
N: I’ll just send ’em to you right now while we’re here.
K: Okay. That’s fine.
N: Okay. You know what’s scary? I read this one. Back on June 27th that’s when I first started talking and look at him: loyal, truthful, dedicated, doesn’t play games…It just makes me so sad to read this and think like —
K: So are these some of the ones that you deleted?
N: I deleted everything that he sent me. These are so old. Like look how old.
K: And is there any from those dates?
N: Yes. So look like these: 6/27, 6/29, these are old and then they seem to be…see and then we’re missing the 2nd and the 3rd and then there’s the 4th.
K: Okay. So there’s a lot of messages.
N: Kind of yeah. But then there’s no 5th, 6th, 7th or 8th. And then there’s the 9th but it’s only one text. And then the 17th, one text.
K: And you guys text how many times a day?
N: Alllllllllll the time. I bet you guys have 100s of messages you need to recover. But yes, so here’s the 11th, but look, there’s only one from the 11th.
K: Can I just see what he says?
N: Yeah. Yeah yeah yeah. And the only text I think might be out of order. Might, is the one at the very end. I just wish they were more complete and I don’t understand why they’re coming in in bits and pieces. Like what’s causing that?
K: So the 10th…Oh you went to the Rockies game?
N: Yeah. I didn’t see him that day. I was with my friends but (I?) stayed with him that night.
K: Okay, so, this one’s on Sunday night.
N: Yeah.
K: At 4:07 p.m. What’s he talking about “pounding fruit?” Is that you or him?
N: That’s him. Oh so he was talking about that birthday party he was gonna go to. Whoever was hosting it-I don’t remember-like he told me the name.
K: Jeremy?
N: I don’t even remember to be honest with you. Like the only names that I remember very well was Nick and Mark. Those are the only two that I’m could be like oh yeah like I can tell you maybe a little bit about these people.
K: Those are his friends?
N: Yeah. Kinda. Um. They went to the birthday party and he said oh this guy always barbecues. And then he was saying oh he didn’t BBQ so [laughter] he was saying he had fruit and asparagus. Yeah “didn’t do any smoked BBQ that time. He did hot dogs.” So he was saying he avoided that. He was trying to eat healthy.
K: So this is the point when —
N: This is the one I don’t know if it’s in order. I’m not sure exactly what this is referring to but I think this one at the bottom, “OMG that’s absolutely ridiculous. They would freak out!!!” That…do you remember when I told you like I was always trying to like incorporate his kids into stuff, I mean even if it wasn’t directly like me and him. But just — like I was always thinking of cute stuff when I’d see stuff I was like, “OMG little girls would like that!” I would show him and I found this box of Lucky Charms that was unicorn Lucky Charms…
K: Okay.
N: And I thought they were really cute. And I texted it to him and I was like, “Do your little girls know about these because they’re awesome?” And I was like little stuff like that.
K: So that’s…?
N: I don’t know think that that’s the 13th because I don’t think I talked to him that day. What day was the 13th?
K: It was Monday.
N: Was it Monday?
K: I think. I gotta look. ’Cause I can’t…
N: I think well no well maybe these are in order. Monday was the day that I think that I sent that text.
K: Yes that’s Monday morning at 2:44 p.m. So that’s in the afternoon. Monday. Does that sound right?
N: It was at work when I texted it to him. Okay so that is in order. It is in order.
N: And this makes sense.
K: And this is the 12th.
N: So that’s Sunday, right? Okay so they’re in order they’re just missing a whole bunch.
K: That’s Sunday.
K: He’s basically saying he’s still at that barbecue.
N: Barbecue.
K: And that fits. Okay. Perfect.
N: So no. So then this one is in the right place. I was thinking 8/13 was Tuesday and I’m like I don’t think him and I had a very pleasant conversation on Tuesday.
K: Wanna screenshot all of those, to me?
N: Yeah yeah yeah. How do you screenshot?
K: And then, I turned this off.
N: Oh this phone is weird you like Ninja chop it. Whoa. I think that worked. Okay, so that takes us down to 6/29 and then I’m gonna scroll up to 6/30.
K: Ninja chop. That’s old. Old school.
N: I had to do ???? permissions at my house last night. I did not like it. I’m like this is scary.
N: That’s cool. I got to ????
K: So while you’re that let me ask you about the texts with you and Charlotte.
N: Yes.
K: You talk about children and he’s got his own kids and that makes you kind of uncomfortable because you’d like to have your own family. Put that in context for me. Is that a fair statement the way I’m saying it?
N: I guess. It was never anything I like said to him though.
K: Okay that’s what I want to know: Did you ever say anything to him like —
N: Nevvveeerrr. Never.
K: Anything about his kids being a problem?
N: No.
K: Anything about his wife being a problem?
N: Never. Never. I always tried to be so inclusive with them. And even with her when I was talking to her it wasn’t that his kids were an issue it was just this man already has a life…Should I go build my own? You know with somebody who hasn’t done that yet. And then she was the one that was saying, you know, I was engaged once and it didn’t work and now I’m engaged again. She was trying to tell me like it doesn’t matter like I’m on my second time of going through this. And she’s like I love this man very very much and she was saying like he’s not gonna love you less because he’s already…been through marriage once and been separated and already had kids. Like he’s not gonna —
K: Those references were never made to him though about children.
N: Never. Never.
K: So Charlotte. That’s who you were talking with, right?
N: Yes.
K: Did you one time tell me Charlotte’s a lesbian?
N: No. She’s engaged.
K: You — were you talking about one of your friends that might have been a lesbian?
N: That’s not the case. I don’t think so. I don’t —
K: You never said that about any of your friends that I inquired about?
N: I don’t think so. I don’t think that was the case.
K: I think like on the first day we talked with your dad there I inquired about Charlotte. Um…
N: Yeah you asked me about Charlotte and eHarmony and I like looked on my text messages like what are they talking about? And I couldn’t find it so I was wondering maybe if somebody like referenced both of those to you but not together.
K: Okay.
N: I’m wondering if that’s where that came from.
K: Okay so Charlotte is your friend. She’s your closest friend.
N: Yep.
K: You guys had this conversation but it never went anywhere besides her and you.
N: Yeah.
K: You never mentioned it to Chris. You never said anything about your kids. Or his kids, pardon me, damaging your guys relationship?
N: Noooo. Nooo. No No No.
K: Or nothing like that?
N: Never. And I mean even in that I wasn’t like I never said his kids were a problem. Like he already has a life. Like I don’t know about that.
K: So in light of what’s occurred, though, what I’m trying to make sure was that there was never a conversation that you guys had that he might have thought that you um…
N: Ah no…
K: You were saying, “I can’t be with you if you had kids.”
N: I wouldn’t…I wouldn’t be with him if I couldn’t accept that.
K: Okay I’m just making 100% sure that those —
N: I promise you, like I really want you guys to pull up these texts because all the stuff I’ve been telling you will like [pounds on table thrice] sync up.
K: And I hope we can. I haven’t been very lucky with your phones yet. And they’ve been nothing but a pain. So this one’s coming with me. Geez.
N: I think. I know this is a task. I’m gonna…some of these might be duplicates but whatever I’m gonna send these to you. Um, no that was just kinda something between me and her and it wasn’t even really the kids it was that like he had already been married before and I was just like I don’t know if I like…in a longterm relationship with this guy is that something that he would eventually want? Because that’s something like I would eventually want. You know? I just don’t…
K: So your concern was more about his prior marriage than his children?
N: I guess…honestly I wasn’t really that worried about him at that time. Like if you read the majority of those texts like it’s very very flattering to him in all the many things that I have to say about him. It was just that I wasn’t like 100% committed to him yet…I mean, I was monogamous with him…I wasn’t seeing any other men. But I wasn’t like, hey this is guy I want to spend the rest of my life with.
And part of the reason that I was uncertain, I mean yeah he’d already built a life but honestly like he wasn’t out of the marriage that he was already in.
K: Right.
N: So I mean I’m not gonna go tell the whole world like, “Hey I’ve got this guy,” and you know I’m gonna take in his kids and we’re gonna do this and we’re gonna do that and it wasn’t because I have any problems with them it’s just [whispers] he was very, you know…
K: Okay.
N: Um I know the context of that text now like looking at it, it looks so bad.
K: You have to look at from the perspective that I’m looking at it.
N: Yeah.
K: And how it could be misconstrued or made out to sound something another way that’s why I wanted to give you the opportunity to say what it really means. Okay?
N: No. I don’t mean any harm towards those kids. I always thought they were so cute when he showed me those pictures. He was all about ’em, you know? And not only that but it’s like once you guys get those texts you will see like there’s not very much mention of his children. And if there is mention of his children, it’s always like cute stuff where it’s like, “Hey you should show them this!” or “Hey, this apartment’s great for them!” Or you know, “What do you think of bunk beds?” And you know like they — those little girls like reminded me of me and my little sister. They’re like the same age.
K: You said that before.
N: Yeah. I mean like it was so cute like he would call his little daughter, the younger one, CeCe, he called her rampage. He’s like “she’s wild” and it just made me 😀. Because my little sister was totally rampage. And it was just kind of like spot on, you know? And so like…it just kind of made me think…like okay these guys are going through a divorce at the same age that I was at when my parents went through a divorce.
I was like how did I handle that? You know like tell him like you know this is what happened when my parents were separated when we were this old. And just try to give him a reference because I gave a damn.
K: Right. Okay. Um…
N: I mean but just because I care about the fam — him and I care about his kids and all of that doesn’t mean that I’m ready to turn around and commit everything.
K: Did he ever say anything like that? Like do I have to get rid of my kids?
N: No he…
K: Or do I you know?
N: This shocked me just as much as I think it shocked the rest of the world. All of it. Like he lied so much now I go back and think about all the shit that I’m like…why? ??? His friends that he spent the night at their house — he even fooled them as much as me. He lied to everybody. He had all of you fooled.
And everybody stood up for him. His friends stood up for him.
I really thought she left. I was like, “Let her fucking go,” you know? She’ll come back in a day. She’ll be all right. Let her cool down. She’ll be here. It’ll be okay. You know? Like had me convinced like I think she’s just upset.
And then and then [redacted? Whispered? Head slicing motion] never…would I have guessed.
I mean even now when I go back through this stuff that I’m like it doesn’t make sense. You know or seem a little off. That stuff still doesn’t send a red flag to me like…Hey this guy is gonna murder his family.
K: Sure. N: You know?
K: You didn’t think there was any…you didn’t have any indication and by all accounts it didn’t seem like anybody did.
N: No…I just ah…you know? Sometimes I like — sometimes I think what that man is thinking you don’t know you know? But it’s like how long has his brain been like shifting to this paradigm shift where he feels the need to do this? It’s like I just don’t believe that’s something that just happens. In a day. Or two days. I don’t think it happens in two months.
I think this is something that takes a very very long time to develop and I don’t…
K: Right. So that scares you when you look back at it?
N: Yeah. Because I like — I think about it and I’m like: He could’ve had that capacity to do that whether I was in his life or not. He could’ve had that capacity to do that maybe not even just to them…It could’ve been me. It could’ve been our coworkers.
I mean the more I think about it, I mean I think a lot of people are gonna probably assume that I was the catalyst for his movement. But I don’t think you know-not me like instructing him but him deciding to do that because he had me in his life and because he was so like infatuated with what we had going on.
But you know like I try to put like the reason to it at the end like why would you wipe out your family to be with me? Like it doesn’t. It doesn’t like compute. It’s like: How would that go?
Like, hey my family just disappeared. And you think that I wouldn’t just not be concerned about that?
And not only that, like he was so about those little girls and I was trying to like push him to do that.
Like I told you there’d be days where when he would want to come over my house after work and I’d be like no, go hang out with your kids. Your kids are home.
Like that was me. That wasn’t even him. That was me pushing that.
And he would go do it. You know?
And he spent time with them but he was never like oh I don’t want to hang out with them.
He just said, “Can I see you for a few hours?”
And I’m like, “If your kids are awake go hang out with your kids.” You know?
If they’re sleeping and you want to talk you can call me but don’t do that while they’re up. Like spend time with them.
And and and I just uh…OMG. That is the part that I have the hardest part swallowing.
Where it’s like why would you take them out to spend time with me?
Like it doesn’t fit. It doesn’t fit at all.
K: Hm mn.
N: You know I…?
K: But you said he was infatuated with you.
N: But even then if he’s so all about me and I support him being with his kids you would think that he would want to do what would make me happy.
K: That’s a good point.
N: And what would make me happy —
K: Was him hanging out with his kids.
N: It’s in texts. It’s in phone conversations.
K: We’ll look at it.
N: It doesn’t…
K: That one particular context in that…it’s so open kind of it interpretation whether or not you said — that’s why I wanted to address it in particular.
N: Okay. Yeah there’s nothing like that in our texts. I can tell you that right now. Never.
K: Did you send those?
N: Yeah, I’m working on it. I’m sorry.
K: How’d you ever get any work done? You get sidetracked.
N: I actually got a lot of work done.
K: [Laughter] I’m just teasing you.
N: It was a lot easier in the oil field than it was in the office, though.
N: Are you [redacted]? K: I am.
N: Okay, just want to make sure.
K: Yeah don’t send those to anybody else please.
N: Let see if I can do it in ? Screenshot.
K: You can probably send them all.
N: Activity not done…
K: How about email? If you emailed it, could you select each one and attach it to the email?
N: I mean I just want to do it here so you know that I like did it in its entirety.
K: Okay. That’s right. You don’t have WiFi on that phone right?
N: No I don’t have anything on here. Okay, I think this is all I…just…this is gonna be a slow process you must bear with me. Yeah I don’t know. Sometimes I just feel like…It’s not even sometimes; I legitimately think that that man’s cheese was sliding off of his cracker long before I came into his life.
K: Have you stayed away from the media the last couple of days?
N: Yeah. I guess they know where I live. I’m like —
K: I mean, no — what they’re reporting about him or the case.
N: No. K: So you’ve been watching that?
N: Kind of. I uh thought…
K: So you saw the video of him like talking about relationships?
N: Oh I don’t really. I can’t even like bring myself to like watch most of that stuff.
K: Okay.
N: I will like scroll through the headlines if they look different than what…I…uh previously like knew about the investigation. Kind of looking for my name so that I know when it happens. So I can deal with that but other than that…no. I don’t uh…I never actually watched that video.
K: Okay.
N: I don’t really like — I have a hard time like looking at him now. It’s kind of the same thing like when I deleted the texts. Like I saw his mugshot and I like looked at it the first time I saw it and it scared me.
And now when I see it I just like move past it.
K: Okay.
N: Because I find it…to be…I don’t get it. I just I don’t know.
K: [Laughter]
N: I don’t know how to work this new phone now. Attached. Oh my goodness. I think some of these are repeats. I’m sorry.
K: That’s okay. As long as I have them all that’d be great.
N: I think you do.
K: You look like you’ve been drinking way too much coffee.
N: Because I’m shaky? K: Yeah.
N: I think it’s from sleep loss.
K: They’re coming.
N: You know the one at the very bottom…oh you do…no you don’t. No you don’t. You’re missing the last one.
K: Send me the last one and I’ll send you out of here. And then don’t think about this stuff for a while.
N: I’m trying but it’s hard — so much easier said than done.
K: And then when I’m done with your phone um…I’ll get this back to you.
N: I mean if you’re gonna need it keep it.
K: No we don’t need to keep it because…what it’s gonna do — if I take everything then it’s just easy. I’ll get it back to ya. Okay? So the examiner that’s gonna look at it — she comes back in early next week. Um and I’ll try to corral her to do that as early as possible. So we can download your phone and get it returned to you.
N: All right. I think I sent ’em all. This phone is so different from my phone.
K: Totally different than an iPhone. I know that.
N: This has been a long time. It’s been years and years…I actually had this phone —
K: Oh let me go see if I can find this Anadarko number real quick. I’ll be right back.
N: Yeah yeah yeah. And then I can do this on here.
K: Totally forgot about that. Right back. Okay. 720- You just reading those?
N: I haven’t seen these in so long.
K: Look for his Anadarko stuff so then you can get out of here. Can you read my handwriting?
N: 310…Let’s start at the top. I just resent you all of those?
K: That’s fine.
N: 720…So that would’ve been on the 12th or the 13th? What day was Monday?
K: Um…11th was Saturday. So the 13th would be Monday.
N: Okay so what happened on the 13th? Because that was the day that I’m at — I don’t see it. If you wanted my com director? I see him. I don’t see him in here. Oh! Erased message
K: It’s okay.
N: I didn’t mean to take it. I’m so sorry….I really like I didn’t know.
K: It’s fine. Don’t beat up yourself about it we’ve already been through this 10 times. It is what it is.
N: I know.
K: Is there any older ones potentially from his Anadarko phone?
N: That’s a possibility.
K: Is there a way to search those?
N: I don’t know. I don’t know.
K: Can you go here and search?
N: Maybe. What about this? Because I haven’t used this phone in years.
K: Search. N: Search!
K: Cool.
N: Yay! 720…it’s gonna be like “that’s everybody.”
K: Nope. Okay. Not on your phone.
N: Okay. I tried.
K: How about in your call log? That was text messages. In your call log did you ever converse with him on that phone? I mean this phone’s pretty old.
N: I don’t think —
K: Oh but…how about we just look at your call log and just see?
N: Let’s see. Let’s see if it downloaded. Nope. 11–02–2016.
K: Okay.
N: And then all these. These are all 2016. So it didn’t update the call log. All it did was today once I got the phone…Okay…
K: Is that a Samsung…
N: Galaxy 5. Yeah I just thought it was so weird all those messages started showing up and I was like, “We have all of them!”
K: That would be so nice. That would be real nice.
N: Wouldn’t it?
K: It would make my life too easy. All right. You ready to get out of here?
N: Yes I am.
K: All right. Take your stuff. I will call you. Probably won’t be next week. I’m gonna be busy all next week. I’ll be gone. So I’ll call you the week after when your phone’s done. Uh and then I’ll get that back to you. And then at that time if there’s anything new we can talk about it then.
N: You think he’s gonna take this all the way to trial?
K: I do. Right now.
N: Have they gotten the discoveries yet?
K: No. They have some stuff.
N: Do you think that’s gonna change when they get them?
N: Do they know that I’m like one of your witnesses?
K: Um. Yeah. They have to know.
K: Do they know what you said yet? No.
